I have watched videos which suggest we don't actually know much of the intelligence of non-humans. A teen cat was slowly raising its pay to strike an older cat, then the cat turns. The teen cat immediately changes its paw to self-grooming its head. Self-awareness and other-awareness. The teen cat knew what the older cat could see; first it knew the older cat could not see the slow paw to play strike, second it then knew the older cat could see the raised paw, third it changed the position of the raised paw to suggest its purpose was grooming. "plausible denial."
--
Animals grieve for recently departed as well as long departed loved ones. Elephants have been seen to gently caress bones of long departed family members.
--
Love others. Many animals have been seen helping other species in trouble; a turtle overturned, a bird in water. Some have been seen helping even when there is some risk to their own health.
--
Are you sure humans are the only ones sentient?
Are you sure that ALL humans are sentient?
--
Many herbivore animals get along very well with other herbivore animals. Live and let live.
--
My point is your 'ethics' could improve if you modify your definition.
[1] Those that demonstrate being sentient can therefore be labelled sentient. One is not automatically given that label.
[1a] Humans are not all sentient in action. Many animals (mostly herbivores, some omnivores, very rarely carnivores) demonstrate ethical behaviour. Sentiency does not equal ethicalism.
[2] There are more than 1% psychopaths in that more than 1% will not help others in need. The actions or lack of action matters more than their words.
No, all life is sentient to some degree, but Humans and any group able to put starships together are sapient. Having the ability as a group to grasp the Laws of Ethics is a key in sapience.
The three Laws of Ethics (Natural Law expressed as the three things not to do):
1. Do not willfully and without fully informed consent hurt or kill the flesh of anOther
2. Do not willfully and without fully informed consent take or damage anything that does not belong to You alone
3. Do not willfully defraud anOther (which can only happen without fully informed consent)
Sentient can be used to deceive. NASA is a complete deception. The moon landing was fake.
—
Animals can also deceive - which means they are capable of doing the same as putting a ‘spaceship’ together, for the purposes of deception (see the funny moon lander).
—
The purpose of us having a big brain is to use it to help all other beings. Not just sentient beings.
—
Do you propose that only sentient beings apply your 3 rules of ethics to other sentient beings? That ethics only applies to those sentient?
—
If ethics is only for those sentient, then that means non-sentient beings can be used as resources, as slaves, as food, as commodities. That also means non-sentient trees, water, plants, even the air can be used as a commodity, since your 3 rules of ethics would thus not apply.
Your idea of 3 laws is wrong. An actual law is unbreakable. Don't get me wrong your three are warm and fuzzy, but they can be put right next to the other thousands of man made fairytale laws. I think you should start over at every action has an equal and opposite reaction, that is a law and really the only law.
I agree with Sam, as well. He sees the world and then trys to explain it while you're doing the opposite. You make macro definitions and then look into the microscope to refined them. What good is your micro definitions when the macro was wrong to begin with?
Sorry for the shade. I too wish the world was better in so many ways. Like if this conversation was in person I would avoid being so smug and real debate would take place. Cheers
Let Me ask You… What other things would every single One of Us say is not okay to do to Us?
No One would say doing the things proscribed in the Laws of Ethics are okay to be done to Them. Thus, they are natural. Natural Law.
All else is a matter of taste.
And… I did not make them up. They are ancient. They are the foundation of Common Law. All systems have built on these, creating legalates on top, and mainly dealing with money. They have been seen and accepted for millennia.
At best you have a set of rules with plenty of exceptions.
As to the claim that these rules are ancient. Sure, people throughout history found benefits in not killing each other. Except, this doesn't seem like a amazing new discovery that was long lost and now found again. Reminds me of Jordan Petersons revelation on responsibility. Gee Mr. Peterson, if only people were just more responsible. Why has no one else discovered this, tell me more.
Or whatever, call them laws and I'll think of a different thing to call balance. Yin yang. The middle way. Your laws can not be applied in these ways. Your laws are breakable.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Yet each and every one of us struggles to live by this simple principle that has been in the zeitgeist for thousands of years.
Have you ever heard of Curtis Yarvin? He proposes the concept that people will build their own 15 minute parallel societies that will then be linked through the control grid or web of authoritarianism. Among other proposals. In other words, some groups of people will do the work themselves for the authoritarians who will then only need to put the screws to the communities to coerce compliance. Weather manipulation, energy weapons, resource control, etc.
I don't see how a world where there is no monetary commerce will be able to thrive. Unless a return to the conditions of rural life in the 1700s is the goal and even then not many will do it and it none of it will be invisible or undetectable.
I think you have a fine utopian vision. That exists in the mind.
I prefer the Asian version - do not do unto Others that which You would not have done to You. I keep both versions pretty well... Haha!
And given all the work We NEED done but no One wants to do it...We can now automate, what do the People do for energy accounting tokens? Automating work We need and don't want to do is freeing Us to create as We would choose to do now if We were rich. I have had a lot of People tell Me People will be lazy (ala Wall-e) and every One I have asked if that is what They would choose. To a One, They have said, "Not ME! I would [fill in the blank with something constructive]."
I do see communities that choose to do things as the conditions of rural life in the 1700's were. But Others not so much...
And FYI: it is NOT "utopian." There will still be problems, but in a society based on Ethically solving for problems, they will be handled well. It's just better than now by leaps, bounds, and wormhole trips.
You are familiar with the societies that emerged in abundance, right? I discuss Them often, and in this piece:
The communities that will coalesce in abundance … until they overpopulate and die from starvation, or get slaughtered by psychopaths and their obedient sheeple whom the psychos scared shitless, next followed by dogs and rats eating them, as usual… because of the exponential function, fucking up everything, for people believing in coalesce (growth) in abundance…
And the obedient sheeple whom the psychos brainwashed as in Trump Derangement Syndrome and now Musk Derangement Syndrome. These people are actually firebombing and shooting up Tesla Dealerships. The television is a powerful mind control weapon, especially when combined with the Novid Clot Shot.
I have no interest in a controlmind of any sort… Any such construct will offer power over Others, which WILL draw psychopaths like feces draw flies. And with money in the mix, the “representatives” can be paid to represent the rich, the corporations, and all.
I applaud you Amaterasu Solar for actually spending time imagining a better way! A peaceful, cooperative way which I believe is totally within the realm of possibility! What man can concieve man can achieve is true and your idea is well thought out! I do believe that if you could give more practical examples of how this would work more people would be open to exploring the exciting possibilities of living like this with one another! Many people need examples in order to understand complex concepts! Please continue your work for the sake of the preservation of thr human race! You inspire us! Thank you!
You talk or write a good game and take no action and find ways to justify your Constitutionally ignorant response. Hence contrarian. Your supposition is incorrect. www.orsja.org I deny the Love always as phony.
What a beautiful post - it reminds me of one of my all time favourite books - Woman on the Edge of Time by Marge Piercy. Thank you Amaterasu! Just made my day - not an easy task recently. xo ♥️
It's a great read and a perspective I support as I attempt to inspire and help build more intentional communities based on the premises you defined. The allowance for our community to establish is health and wealth criteria, to enable it to support itself through many means, all human energy and spiritual drive focused on common goals and succes for all involved. The positive communities that teach the children who will lead tomorrow to be ethical in all things is essential for a paradise of nature and mankind to coexist and thrive on Earth together. Thanks for the post.
Wouldn't it be cool if nobody accepted their UBI/Universal basic income &lived full rich lives ??
There were a small number of folks that refused to sign & cash their Convid payoff check... whatever they called it. Bribery & consent to be experimented upon?
Oh I know, I probably wasn't very clear .. It would be nice IF in the whirled of technocracy & tyranny that people decided to refuse the UBI & come on over to your well thought out way of being. That's all :)
Beings - sentient.
--
I have watched videos which suggest we don't actually know much of the intelligence of non-humans. A teen cat was slowly raising its pay to strike an older cat, then the cat turns. The teen cat immediately changes its paw to self-grooming its head. Self-awareness and other-awareness. The teen cat knew what the older cat could see; first it knew the older cat could not see the slow paw to play strike, second it then knew the older cat could see the raised paw, third it changed the position of the raised paw to suggest its purpose was grooming. "plausible denial."
--
Animals grieve for recently departed as well as long departed loved ones. Elephants have been seen to gently caress bones of long departed family members.
--
Love others. Many animals have been seen helping other species in trouble; a turtle overturned, a bird in water. Some have been seen helping even when there is some risk to their own health.
--
Are you sure humans are the only ones sentient?
Are you sure that ALL humans are sentient?
--
Many herbivore animals get along very well with other herbivore animals. Live and let live.
--
My point is your 'ethics' could improve if you modify your definition.
[1] Those that demonstrate being sentient can therefore be labelled sentient. One is not automatically given that label.
[1a] Humans are not all sentient in action. Many animals (mostly herbivores, some omnivores, very rarely carnivores) demonstrate ethical behaviour. Sentiency does not equal ethicalism.
[2] There are more than 1% psychopaths in that more than 1% will not help others in need. The actions or lack of action matters more than their words.
No, all life is sentient to some degree, but Humans and any group able to put starships together are sapient. Having the ability as a group to grasp the Laws of Ethics is a key in sapience.
The three Laws of Ethics (Natural Law expressed as the three things not to do):
1. Do not willfully and without fully informed consent hurt or kill the flesh of anOther
2. Do not willfully and without fully informed consent take or damage anything that does not belong to You alone
3. Do not willfully defraud anOther (which can only happen without fully informed consent)
Sentient can be used to deceive. NASA is a complete deception. The moon landing was fake.
—
Animals can also deceive - which means they are capable of doing the same as putting a ‘spaceship’ together, for the purposes of deception (see the funny moon lander).
—
The purpose of us having a big brain is to use it to help all other beings. Not just sentient beings.
—
Do you propose that only sentient beings apply your 3 rules of ethics to other sentient beings? That ethics only applies to those sentient?
—
If ethics is only for those sentient, then that means non-sentient beings can be used as resources, as slaves, as food, as commodities. That also means non-sentient trees, water, plants, even the air can be used as a commodity, since your 3 rules of ethics would thus not apply.
Did You miss My delineation of sentient and sapient?
Do You think dogs grasp the three Laws?
And no... Deceiving and constructing complex machinery are not the same.
Why You're going off on the NASA tangent here is beyond Me. Well... Do have a lovely life.
Your idea of 3 laws is wrong. An actual law is unbreakable. Don't get me wrong your three are warm and fuzzy, but they can be put right next to the other thousands of man made fairytale laws. I think you should start over at every action has an equal and opposite reaction, that is a law and really the only law.
I agree with Sam, as well. He sees the world and then trys to explain it while you're doing the opposite. You make macro definitions and then look into the microscope to refined them. What good is your micro definitions when the macro was wrong to begin with?
Sorry for the shade. I too wish the world was better in so many ways. Like if this conversation was in person I would avoid being so smug and real debate would take place. Cheers
Let Me ask You… What other things would every single One of Us say is not okay to do to Us?
No One would say doing the things proscribed in the Laws of Ethics are okay to be done to Them. Thus, they are natural. Natural Law.
All else is a matter of taste.
And… I did not make them up. They are ancient. They are the foundation of Common Law. All systems have built on these, creating legalates on top, and mainly dealing with money. They have been seen and accepted for millennia.
At best you have a set of rules with plenty of exceptions.
As to the claim that these rules are ancient. Sure, people throughout history found benefits in not killing each other. Except, this doesn't seem like a amazing new discovery that was long lost and now found again. Reminds me of Jordan Petersons revelation on responsibility. Gee Mr. Peterson, if only people were just more responsible. Why has no one else discovered this, tell me more.
Or whatever, call them laws and I'll think of a different thing to call balance. Yin yang. The middle way. Your laws can not be applied in these ways. Your laws are breakable.
Oh I should say your/all "laws" are really just expectations not laws.
Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
Yet each and every one of us struggles to live by this simple principle that has been in the zeitgeist for thousands of years.
Have you ever heard of Curtis Yarvin? He proposes the concept that people will build their own 15 minute parallel societies that will then be linked through the control grid or web of authoritarianism. Among other proposals. In other words, some groups of people will do the work themselves for the authoritarians who will then only need to put the screws to the communities to coerce compliance. Weather manipulation, energy weapons, resource control, etc.
I don't see how a world where there is no monetary commerce will be able to thrive. Unless a return to the conditions of rural life in the 1700s is the goal and even then not many will do it and it none of it will be invisible or undetectable.
I think you have a fine utopian vision. That exists in the mind.
I prefer the Asian version - do not do unto Others that which You would not have done to You. I keep both versions pretty well... Haha!
And given all the work We NEED done but no One wants to do it...We can now automate, what do the People do for energy accounting tokens? Automating work We need and don't want to do is freeing Us to create as We would choose to do now if We were rich. I have had a lot of People tell Me People will be lazy (ala Wall-e) and every One I have asked if that is what They would choose. To a One, They have said, "Not ME! I would [fill in the blank with something constructive]."
I do see communities that choose to do things as the conditions of rural life in the 1700's were. But Others not so much...
And FYI: it is NOT "utopian." There will still be problems, but in a society based on Ethically solving for problems, they will be handled well. It's just better than now by leaps, bounds, and wormhole trips.
You are familiar with the societies that emerged in abundance, right? I discuss Them often, and in this piece:
80% of Us Merely Move Money (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/80-of-us-merely-move-money
The communities that will coalesce in abundance … until they overpopulate and die from starvation, or get slaughtered by psychopaths and their obedient sheeple whom the psychos scared shitless, next followed by dogs and rats eating them, as usual… because of the exponential function, fucking up everything, for people believing in coalesce (growth) in abundance…
And the obedient sheeple whom the psychos brainwashed as in Trump Derangement Syndrome and now Musk Derangement Syndrome. These people are actually firebombing and shooting up Tesla Dealerships. The television is a powerful mind control weapon, especially when combined with the Novid Clot Shot.
Liked and cross-posted!💝
I saw that!!! Thank You ever so much!!! I am well paid in appreciation and sharing!
Returning to a Constitutional republican form of government this year 2025. With the Laws of nature and of Nature's God included. www.orsja.org
I have no interest in a controlmind of any sort… Any such construct will offer power over Others, which WILL draw psychopaths like feces draw flies. And with money in the mix, the “representatives” can be paid to represent the rich, the corporations, and all.
Give Me a solutocracy.
Solutocracy – A Way to Govern (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/solutocracy-a-way-to-govern
I applaud you Amaterasu Solar for actually spending time imagining a better way! A peaceful, cooperative way which I believe is totally within the realm of possibility! What man can concieve man can achieve is true and your idea is well thought out! I do believe that if you could give more practical examples of how this would work more people would be open to exploring the exciting possibilities of living like this with one another! Many people need examples in order to understand complex concepts! Please continue your work for the sake of the preservation of thr human race! You inspire us! Thank you!
Well… I have a number of articles…
Technological Nature (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/technological-nature
Birth of an Invention (short story): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/birth-of-an-invention
The Story of a Carpenter (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/the-story-of-a-carpenter
Heart-Driven Economy vs. Greed-Driven Economy (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/heart-driven-economy-vs-greed-driven
Abundancism – It’s Not Working for a Living; It’s Loving the Work You’re Living (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/abundancism-its-not-working-for-a
Abundance -> Cooperation; Scarcity -> Competition (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/abundance-cooperation-scarcity-competition
The Third Option: Anarcho-Abundancism (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/the-third-option-anarcho-abundancism
Abundancism: Things Done for Purpose, Not Profit (article): https://amaterasusolar.substack.com/p/abundancism-things-done-for-purpose
Yep! Still a contrarian without supporting evidence to your claim www.orsja.org
I ponder the “contrarian” here. I suppose You’re okay with giving Your sovereignty to some Other to make choices for You… Love always.
You talk or write a good game and take no action and find ways to justify your Constitutionally ignorant response. Hence contrarian. Your supposition is incorrect. www.orsja.org I deny the Love always as phony.
What a beautiful post - it reminds me of one of my all time favourite books - Woman on the Edge of Time by Marge Piercy. Thank you Amaterasu! Just made my day - not an easy task recently. xo ♥️
I am humbled in Your payment of appreciation and so glad I could offer something You find worthy of that expression!!! 🤗 💜 🤗
🥰🤗
It's a great read and a perspective I support as I attempt to inspire and help build more intentional communities based on the premises you defined. The allowance for our community to establish is health and wealth criteria, to enable it to support itself through many means, all human energy and spiritual drive focused on common goals and succes for all involved. The positive communities that teach the children who will lead tomorrow to be ethical in all things is essential for a paradise of nature and mankind to coexist and thrive on Earth together. Thanks for the post.
Thank You for Your payment of attention in reading. You enrich Me!
Wouldn't it be cool if nobody accepted their UBI/Universal basic income &lived full rich lives ??
There were a small number of folks that refused to sign & cash their Convid payoff check... whatever they called it. Bribery & consent to be experimented upon?
Excellent solutions you bring forth!
Well, in abundancism, there’s no UBI… No money of any kind needed.
Thank You for Your payment of attention in reading and responding!
Oh I know, I probably wasn't very clear .. It would be nice IF in the whirled of technocracy & tyranny that people decided to refuse the UBI & come on over to your well thought out way of being. That's all :)
abundancism, L♥ ve THAT!
Ah, got it! I am hoping free energy flows before They get the UBI up and running… Haha!